![arsenicsnap:
vexarian:
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vexarian:
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vexarian:
intellogirl:
Um…I thought Dirk was almost completely confirmed. And since when do we only make “grabby hands” at John for yaoi? I always thought Dave and Karkat were the yaoi bicycles
John is to a far more insulting degree. I can’t check right now because AO3’s tag filtering is down for some bizarre reason and the Kinkmeme has always been crap for searching, but as of the last time I checked John/Dave was the single most popular pairing in the god damn fandom, closely followed by John/Karkat. There is also a substantial amount of more tangential John/slash pairings. John/Eridan used to be inexplicably popular on the Kinkmeme last year.
Point is, I doubt Dave and Karkat’s numbers outweigh John’s by any significant proportion, though I am certain they’re likely close.
but he’s not…. even that explicitly “not a homo” guys seriously didn’t he say that like once in the entire webcomic
and then he went on to tell his furry dog space witch ectosister that he didn’t even give a shit about romance
they’re just kids! especially john, real life is full of a bunch of teengers not knowing exactly what their sexuality is i mean come on
he’s 14 obviously he knows how he’s going to be for the rest of his life yep
ONCE IS FUCKING ENOUGH.
And don’t you fucking dare start that “Oh he’s just fucking fourteen, he can change” bullshit.
yes i’m assuming you knew exactly every detail/event/pathway that your life was going to continue down the very moment an angry troll from the internet attempted to solicit some hatelovin’ from you
unless of course you haven’t reached that age yet, in which case i can’t say i’m too terribly surprised, given the *stupendously* mature opinions you spout out on posts about a webcomic
You seem to fundamentally misunderstand.
It is not outside of my ability to simply sit down and calmly, reasonably explain my viewpoints and carefully lay out my arguments so that any rational individual could understand them.
The problem is that it is very tiring having to continually state and restate my opinions and more importantly my arguments in long and elegant detail as I have so often done. So sometimes I get lazy and sometimes I yell, the two aren’t exclusive, and they aren’t even exclusive to the points in time when I actually do take the time to carefully formulate and format my thoughts into a proper argumentative essay.
But I digress.
The statement that “John could change his mind about his sexual orientation”, is simply that. A statement. It is not a defense and more importantly even if it were it is by no means a rational one. Andrew Hussie is not the sort of author who would make a statement such as this only to later revoke it. He would need a reason for John to have lied or been ignorant and a reason for his later revelation and neither is sensible in the context of John’s romantic character arc.
But more importantly in terms of fan-created content, it isn’t a statement with any legitimate substance to it. Stating that John is capable, at a far later date of having his sexual orientation shift or of finding his initial assessment to be on some level flawed is a perfectly valid argument. But only when used within a story and given proper narrative weight and execution.
Just saying that “John could later discover he’s a homosexual!” isn’t a fucking excuse, not unless your story literally includes a plot point that reads “John later discovers that he is a homosexual”.
i don’t even know why i’m bothering arguing on the internet anymore
for the record, i completely respect your opinion and statement as just that. an opinion and statement. just like my opinion and statement is!
what actually happened in the text was this:
karkat gave john a flustered sort of hate confession. john stated “i am not a homosexual”, told him he thought terezi/karkat was a thing, then they made an awkward agreement not to ever bring it up again.
what your take on this event is that john canonically stated he wasn’t a homosexual, and turned down karkat, therefore shouldn’t be shipped with guys (without some actual forethought to the matter).
(i am trying to be as polite about this as i can. notice my word choice, and how i don’t refer to my statements as excessively “elegant” or attempt to belittle you for being “fundamentally mistaken”.)
that is a perfectly logical assumption to make, based on the event!
however, another logical assumption could be that john isn’t entirely comfortable with karkat’s hateflirting confession. he’s just a kid, he might have entertained thoughts about being with guys, but who cares, right? he’s a teenager, he’s got time. karkat’s sudden confession was thought to come completely from the blue, and therefore it caught john off guard. it’s not entirely unheard of for someone who isn’t quite comfortable with their sexuality to slap down the “I’M STRAIGHT” card in a situation like that.
i don’t think that i could be “fundamentally” wrong, as we both are stemming opinions/thoughts from the same event.
also, as is the cases with a lot of fanwork, you don’t know what the creator was thinking when they made… whatever.
example, fanart. you could just see a picture of john and [insert male of choice here] cuddling or smooching or whatever, and be like, “oh great it’s another shipper with blatant disregard for canonical details”. since it’s just a picture, you wouldn’t know if the artist had some crazy intricate thoughts of plotline already cooked up in their head whenever they decided to draw it.
that being said, i know a lot of people probably don’t do this. they just doodle guys making out because they can and it makes them happy. that’s perfectly fine, too!
i have no idea where i’m even going with this anymore, but yeah. john egbert does not even and never will actually exist, so shipping arguments— though they sometimes have a logical reasoning behind them (mind you, i hate when people strip characters of what really makes them THEM just for their own purpose of fangirling or whatever you want to call it, though they can really do whatever they want, it’s not my business)— in the end, i don’t see the point of it.
Don’t get so damn cocksure in yourself. Not only are you not the first person to use that “John could be homosexual and just got flustered by Karkat’s sudden confession!” argument, but you’re also not going to be the first person to use it convincingly.
Don’t feel too bad though, that’s mostly because it’s impossible to make that argument convincing.
Just to start with there is absolutely zero support for it. The only thing that keeps it from being complete maddening lunacy is the fact that yes, John does technically possess the capacity to lie. But even then it’s a clear violation of the unspoken agreement between author and reader. You can’t just assume that characters are lying because you want them to be lying, that’s fucking insane.
And even leaving that aside, it still comes off as remarkably hollow.
Thing is, there’s no law that says if someone solicits you for sloppy make outs you are required to make with the make outs unless you aren’t physically capable of feeling attraction to them. John could have very easily have just said he wasn’t interested. Or fuck, he could have told Karkat he had a girlfriend, which he did as far as he knew, it’s something a lot of John/Slashers like to willfully ignore about the situation. At the time of that conversation John was more or less convinced that Vriska was going to jump him the first chance she got and he was pretty much okay with that.
This one is an excuse that starts out at unconvincing and just keeps lowering itself further into the abyss but technically remains possible in the same sense that it is technically possible that Rose is actually the dark overlord of the entire story and is and has secretly masterminded everything that has occurred to fulfill her fiendish plots.
It’s possible, but it’s still pretty fucking dumb.](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6s1wooZQK1r2qpyoo1_500.png)
Um…I thought Dirk was almost completely confirmed. And since when do we only make “grabby hands” at John for yaoi? I always thought Dave and Karkat were the yaoi bicycles
John is to a far more insulting degree. I can’t check right now because AO3’s tag filtering is down for some bizarre reason and the Kinkmeme has always been crap for searching, but as of the last time I checked John/Dave was the single most popular pairing in the god damn fandom, closely followed by John/Karkat. There is also a substantial amount of more tangential John/slash pairings. John/Eridan used to be inexplicably popular on the Kinkmeme last year.
Point is, I doubt Dave and Karkat’s numbers outweigh John’s by any significant proportion, though I am certain they’re likely close.
but he’s not…. even that explicitly “not a homo” guys seriously didn’t he say that like once in the entire webcomic
and then he went on to tell his furry dog space witch ectosister that he didn’t even give a shit about romance
they’re just kids! especially john, real life is full of a bunch of teengers not knowing exactly what their sexuality is i mean come on
he’s 14 obviously he knows how he’s going to be for the rest of his life yep
ONCE IS FUCKING ENOUGH.
And don’t you fucking dare start that “Oh he’s just fucking fourteen, he can change” bullshit.
yes i’m assuming you knew exactly every detail/event/pathway that your life was going to continue down the very moment an angry troll from the internet attempted to solicit some hatelovin’ from you
unless of course you haven’t reached that age yet, in which case i can’t say i’m too terribly surprised, given the *stupendously* mature opinions you spout out on posts about a webcomic
You seem to fundamentally misunderstand.
It is not outside of my ability to simply sit down and calmly, reasonably explain my viewpoints and carefully lay out my arguments so that any rational individual could understand them.
The problem is that it is very tiring having to continually state and restate my opinions and more importantly my arguments in long and elegant detail as I have so often done. So sometimes I get lazy and sometimes I yell, the two aren’t exclusive, and they aren’t even exclusive to the points in time when I actually do take the time to carefully formulate and format my thoughts into a proper argumentative essay.
But I digress.
The statement that “John could change his mind about his sexual orientation”, is simply that. A statement. It is not a defense and more importantly even if it were it is by no means a rational one. Andrew Hussie is not the sort of author who would make a statement such as this only to later revoke it. He would need a reason for John to have lied or been ignorant and a reason for his later revelation and neither is sensible in the context of John’s romantic character arc.
But more importantly in terms of fan-created content, it isn’t a statement with any legitimate substance to it. Stating that John is capable, at a far later date of having his sexual orientation shift or of finding his initial assessment to be on some level flawed is a perfectly valid argument. But only when used within a story and given proper narrative weight and execution.
Just saying that “John could later discover he’s a homosexual!” isn’t a fucking excuse, not unless your story literally includes a plot point that reads “John later discovers that he is a homosexual”.
i don’t even know why i’m bothering arguing on the internet anymore
for the record, i completely respect your opinion and statement as just that. an opinion and statement. just like my opinion and statement is!
what actually happened in the text was this:
karkat gave john a flustered sort of hate confession. john stated “i am not a homosexual”, told him he thought terezi/karkat was a thing, then they made an awkward agreement not to ever bring it up again.
what your take on this event is that john canonically stated he wasn’t a homosexual, and turned down karkat, therefore shouldn’t be shipped with guys (without some actual forethought to the matter).
(i am trying to be as polite about this as i can. notice my word choice, and how i don’t refer to my statements as excessively “elegant” or attempt to belittle you for being “fundamentally mistaken”.)
that is a perfectly logical assumption to make, based on the event!
however, another logical assumption could be that john isn’t entirely comfortable with karkat’s hateflirting confession. he’s just a kid, he might have entertained thoughts about being with guys, but who cares, right? he’s a teenager, he’s got time. karkat’s sudden confession was thought to come completely from the blue, and therefore it caught john off guard. it’s not entirely unheard of for someone who isn’t quite comfortable with their sexuality to slap down the “I’M STRAIGHT” card in a situation like that.
i don’t think that i could be “fundamentally” wrong, as we both are stemming opinions/thoughts from the same event.
also, as is the cases with a lot of fanwork, you don’t know what the creator was thinking when they made… whatever.
example, fanart. you could just see a picture of john and [insert male of choice here] cuddling or smooching or whatever, and be like, “oh great it’s another shipper with blatant disregard for canonical details”. since it’s just a picture, you wouldn’t know if the artist had some crazy intricate thoughts of plotline already cooked up in their head whenever they decided to draw it.
that being said, i know a lot of people probably don’t do this. they just doodle guys making out because they can and it makes them happy. that’s perfectly fine, too!
i have no idea where i’m even going with this anymore, but yeah. john egbert does not even and never will actually exist, so shipping arguments— though they sometimes have a logical reasoning behind them (mind you, i hate when people strip characters of what really makes them THEM just for their own purpose of fangirling or whatever you want to call it, though they can really do whatever they want, it’s not my business)— in the end, i don’t see the point of it.
Don’t get so damn cocksure in yourself. Not only are you not the first person to use that “John could be homosexual and just got flustered by Karkat’s sudden confession!” argument, but you’re also not going to be the first person to use it convincingly.
Don’t feel too bad though, that’s mostly because it’s impossible to make that argument convincing.
Just to start with there is absolutely zero support for it. The only thing that keeps it from being complete maddening lunacy is the fact that yes, John does technically possess the capacity to lie. But even then it’s a clear violation of the unspoken agreement between author and reader. You can’t just assume that characters are lying because you want them to be lying, that’s fucking insane.
And even leaving that aside, it still comes off as remarkably hollow.
Thing is, there’s no law that says if someone solicits you for sloppy make outs you are required to make with the make outs unless you aren’t physically capable of feeling attraction to them. John could have very easily have just said he wasn’t interested. Or fuck, he could have told Karkat he had a girlfriend, which he did as far as he knew, it’s something a lot of John/Slashers like to willfully ignore about the situation. At the time of that conversation John was more or less convinced that Vriska was going to jump him the first chance she got and he was pretty much okay with that.
This one is an excuse that starts out at unconvincing and just keeps lowering itself further into the abyss but technically remains possible in the same sense that it is technically possible that Rose is actually the dark overlord of the entire story and is and has secretly masterminded everything that has occurred to fulfill her fiendish plots.
It’s possible, but it’s still pretty fucking dumb.
(Source: unpopular-hs-opinions)
