I Say Things

Are you me? I didn’t think this way until oh, about three-four days ago.

homestucksecrets:

i have wanted to say this for a long time and im not afraid of the haters that diagree to me this is just my apinion

text ==>

okey so i have seen a lot of ppl complaning about the fans of Homestuck yes some makes us just wnat to kill ourself but they are probbly the kind of fans that ruins every fandom take the shipping as an exsemple in all fandoms there are shippings we can avoid it no mather if we want or not but that dosnt give Homestuck a bad rep just because it is easy to hip in this fandom if you dont like the ship then just ingnore it and make the one you like kay c: also the dans that conect everything to Homestuck why are they so bad i was like that but my brother hate homestuck because i like it i didnt mention a word about it to him! because I have control over myself you see there is incontrol and non incontrol fans make sure you know who your talking about wher you hate on the fans oki! c: (sorry if something is spelled wrong i have dislexsia… also i chosed this girl’s art as the BG because i was just like her!)

Dyslexic->Readable Translation Go!

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I have wanted to say this for a long time and I’m not afraid of the haters that disagree with me. This is just my opinion.

Text ==>

Okay so I have seen a lot of people complaining about the fans of Homestuck. Yes, some make us just want to kill ourselves but they are probably the kind of fans that ruin every fandom. Take shipping as an example, in all fandoms there are ships we can’t avoid no matter if we want to or not, but that doesn’t give Homestuck a bad reputation. It is easy to ship in this fandom, if you don’t like a ship then just ignore it and make the one you like. Okay? C:

Also the fans that connect everything to Homestuck, why are they so bad? I was like that but my brother hates Homestuck, because I like it I didn’t mention a word about it to him! Because I have control over myself you see there are fans that are in control and fans that are not in control, make sure you know who you’re talking about when you hate on the fans, okay! C:

(Sorry if something is spelled wrong, I have dyslexia… Also I chose this girl’s art as the background because I was just like her!)

(Editor: I went over everything for you and fixed it up. It’d be a shame for you to be misinterpreted or misunderstood just because of poor readability. I’m relatively certain I got your intended meaning down.)

The Sufferer’s movement was secular you realize? It wasn’t a religious movement so much as it was cultural/ideological. There’s still essentially no religion in Homestuck, apart from Gamzee’s obscure doom-cult.

Besides I think Andrew is an atheist.

homestucksecrets:

no, I won’t let you watch the next time I sleep with my partner. no, you can’t make jokes about my being your gay best friend.

I wish there was something I could do to help alleviate the situation. Beyond what I’m already trying to do at that is.

starsfelltoearth:

vexarian:

shokiade:

vexarian:

[comment tree snipped for brevity]

If you’re really interested in doing a more fleshed-out argument, could I suggest that you invest a little extra focus into the way that girl characters, and their relationships both with other boys and with other girls, are minimized and erased by slashers? This is of course something that’s endemic to all slash, not just Johnslash, but I feel like you could make this point very well for reasons you touched on in your rant.

Of course, feel free not to if it distracts from or doesn’t bolster your main argument. Looking forward to reading it either way.

I am very strongly considering it. The only reason I’m not already busy beating my head against my keyboard writing it is because there’s only about three days left before my Round One prompt for the HSO is due for Palhoncho Approval. It’s not even close to done at the moment and I don’t feel comfortable letting it wait until the last possible minute.

But once I finish that I fully intend to flesh out my original rant into a full essay since apparently there’s something resembling demand for such a thing.

Also do keep in mind that the reason that the original rant was ONLY 700 words is because it measures out to be about 4035 characters and AO3 has a limit of 4300 characters for comments, I had literally said as much as I possibly could given the limitation and I had to be brief and concise. The fact that I had to leave out a lot of secondary issues and be so brief on some core issues like the canonical romantic interests is part of why I want to at least write a second half, but a flat out redrafting aught to be a better idea overall.

Once I’m done, it should probably be a good 2000 words or so and go a lot more in-depth about certain subjects.

I may have to go and skim some John/Dave or John/Karkat fics to get a better idea of what I’m dealing with here. I generally avoid Slash as much as I can.

Um you seem kinda pissed about this.

And as I recall HSO is a multishipping challenge, so, uh.

Why are you there? I think enough people are dogging you for your John/Karkat hating, so I just thought I’d ask what’s your business in an environment that will likely set you off, if one story on A03 was able to do so. I mean, if that story wasn’t going to slash John with somebody, would you have just… snapped at HSO then? John/Karkat there too, ya know.

Also that author has the opposite of a shitty attitude but whatevs, I get the feeling that’s not your concern.

My original rant on the subject was absolutely horrible. It was aggressive to a degree that almost offends my delicate sensibilities now that I’ve calmed down, but more importantly it was absurdly misleading, mostly because of just how little I actually said on the matter.

I’ve started collecting my thoughts for a follow-up that should address what I was actually trying to talk about. The subject is actually a lot more complicated and a lot more principled then I had originally let on during my rant, I’d try to explain but I haven’t finished my new Essay yet.

But to answer this very quickly.

1. The best I can say is that I don’t have a problem with John/Dave or John/Karkat pairings, or really any pairing. It’s somewhat misleading, but it’s the best answer I can give without delving into the subject. It’s very complicated and thinky, but this answer will do in a pinch.

And I have absolutely no problem with the John/Karkat, John/Dave or any other teams participating in the Homestuck Shipping Olympics. I mean sure they’re all going to lose, but that’s not because of the ship. After all only one team can come out on top and I intend for that team to be “The 8est Team”.

So excetera, excetera, bring it.

2. Regarding the Author. I still stand by my original accusation, if not the aggression that I had made it with. I have absolutely no respect for them, but the reason why seems to have escaped you. Don’t feel bad, it’s extremely subtle and I strongly doubt anyone understood what I was saying. I certainly didn’t help matters by drowning myself out in rage and ranting.

shokiade:

vexarian:

[comment tree snipped for brevity]

If you’re really interested in doing a more fleshed-out argument, could I suggest that you invest a little extra focus into the way that girl characters, and their relationships both with other boys and with other girls, are minimized and erased by slashers? This is of course something that’s endemic to all slash, not just Johnslash, but I feel like you could make this point very well for reasons you touched on in your rant.

Of course, feel free not to if it distracts from or doesn’t bolster your main argument. Looking forward to reading it either way.

I am very strongly considering it. The only reason I’m not already busy beating my head against my keyboard writing it is because there’s only about three days left before my Round One prompt for the HSO is due for Palhoncho Approval. It’s not even close to done at the moment and I don’t feel comfortable letting it wait until the last possible minute.

But once I finish that I fully intend to flesh out my original rant into a full essay since apparently there’s something resembling demand for such a thing.

Also do keep in mind that the reason that the original rant was ONLY 700 words is because it measures out to be about 4035 characters and AO3 has a limit of 4300 characters for comments, I had literally said as much as I possibly could given the limitation and I had to be brief and concise. The fact that I had to leave out a lot of secondary issues and be so brief on some core issues like the canonical romantic interests is part of why I want to at least write a second half, but a flat out redrafting aught to be a better idea overall.

Once I’m done, it should probably be a good 2000 words or so and go a lot more in-depth about certain subjects.

I may have to go and skim some John/Dave or John/Karkat fics to get a better idea of what I’m dealing with here. I generally avoid Slash as much as I can.

shokiade:

vexarian:

terminallyfapricious:

vexarian:

Brofist. So hard. I actually make a tumblr account specifically to respond to this.

I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said and it’s actually a huge weight off my chest to know that someone else seems to have an actual problem with all of this, quite frankly insane slash shipping. I could and at one point damn near have written essays on just how utterly idiotic this whole trend is.

The obsession some people have toward slash-shipping John is quite frankly disgusting. And it’s not because of the slash, I don’t give a fuck about slash. I don’t read it, but the amount of fucks I give about it is so minuet it would take a team of swiss scientists and a ten billion dollar atomic nanoscope to measure it accurately.

What I care about is that they’re trampling all over canonical character traits, personalities and relationships just to sate their insatiable lust for man-on-ass action. I’d even be willing to cut them some fucking slack if they actually deserved any, but no it’s always just pure wank material that slams two utterly incompatible characters together with all the subtlety and grace of a pair of runaway freight trains colliding head-on. Not that I can really blame them, anyone with the skill and time to actually do it right has better things to to, like cure cancer and invent the universe.

Just recently I spent 700 words exhaustively disproving the very concept of John/Dave and John/Karkat after some idiot on the AO3 provoked me. Tempted to go back and continue ranting because said idiot clearly didn’t learn a damn thing.

Reblogging this to ask if I could be linked to said 700 words. I’m interested.

I’ll just copy/paste the entire rant.

The reason I’m not linking to it is because I don’t want to be drowned out like I was originally, and because I don’t care to give the dumbass I ranted at any more exposure.

He’s not a bad writer, in fact he’s so good that it just makes it all the more damning - not because I don’t think pairings I vehemently disagree with don’t deserve to be written - but because his shitty attitude makes me want to break his face. I’d never have gone off on him like this if he wasn’t so fucking full of himself.

Anyway, here’s the rant. I was pretty annoyed when I wrote it so it’s pretty coarse and very rough around the edges. If I had any actual motivation to do so I might go back and do some hardcore editing, along with adding some detail. 4300 Characters is pretty stringent though.

Warning: Writer losing his shit proceeds. RANT RANT RANT

Usually I just keep my fucking trap shut and let people do whatever the fuck they want. I couldn’t care less what you ship or write so long as you don’t shove it in my face. But since I already lost control of myself and started flipping my shit I may as well finish the damn job.

I literally can’t say a single good thing about John/Dave or John/Karkat pairings. I can’t even say it’s a creative pairing because there’s such a ludicrously disproportionate amount of it.

Added to it, you have to tear Canon into ribbons to make it work. First you have to get rid of John’s heterosexuality, either by just outright ignoring that it ever happened or using the magical Wand of The Nile. Either way I strongly doubt it’s ever been done right, and no that isn’t an invitation to try.

Of course John’s sexual orientation is only the first hurdle in this endless Olympian event. After that you’re in the unenviable position of having to somehow cancel out all of their existing romantic interests, John/Rose, John/Vriska, (Dave/Karkat)/Terezi, (Dave/Karkat)/Jade. All in a way that’s convincing. Of course if you choose to get rid of them by setting them up with someone else you have to literally pull everything to a stop, address this then start the god damn story again because there is absolutely no way to skip this.

Then after you’ve somehow managed to nullify John’s sexuality and his existing relationships, along with Dave or Karkat’s relationships you have to somehow find some spark of interest between the two that hasn’t already been smothered by this human disease of friendship/bromance. Here’s your shovel and fine toothed comb, this will take a while.

And after you’ve somehow located whatever seed of a relationship that may or may not actually exist in their interactions you have to somehow encourage it to grow and do so in a way that doesn’t seem cheap and contrived. This will be even harder then the last step.

This is all just to make the pairing believable. Most people don’t even get through the first sentence, they just randomly slap the two together like slabs of beef and pretend it makes any kind of sense. It’s either that or pull an insanely asinine Dues Ex Machina out of your Utility Belt or just give the fuck up and pull an extremely unsatisfying AU just to be able to smash the two together with all the grace of a pair of runaway trains.

I’m not declaring it to be impossible, but I am saying no one has given either pairing the treatment it would require to do right. You would need at LEAST a hundred thousand words to pull it off. And yes I do know how much that is, I’ve written a fic that’s at 50,000 words. If anything it feels too damn low, I’m tempted to double it. Even then it will probably fall short considering how exhaustively Hussie set up the canonical decahedrons.

I could write an encyclopedia on how this doesn’t work, and considering how nauseatingly pervasive this is I’m starting to think I might actually have to do so.

*Sigh*

I hope you realize that whatever dynamics you find so interesting in John/Dave or John/Karkat already exist. It’s a disease called friendship and it doesn’t require John, Dave or Karkat to be suddenly overwhelmed with a mysterious hunger for manflesh. And if you’re referring to anything else then I’m sorry to tell you this but, it doesn’t exist.

I also have no idea how you could possibly feel as though you could handle this pairing. There is so much stacked against it and absolutely nothing to support it whatsoever. I could get my two best friends together and combined we could almost certainly be the best writer this fandom has. Assuming I somehow managed to bribe them into trying to write this pairing it would still cost us four months of our lives, every scrap of our combined dignity and self-respect and all of my sanity, and I can still only say with a 50% certainty that we could pull it off and even if by some dark miracle we succeeded, at what cost? At what cost?

This should be considered required reading for every John/Karkat and John/Dave shipper ever.

Is it okay if I screencap this and paste it places? Credited to a source, of course.

This comment tree is getting kind of big.

I don’t mind at all if you start throwing it around, although I would encourage you to be responsible about who you abuse.

However, since apparently I’m not crazy, I’ve been thinking of going back and doing some editing and adding on to make my argument more complete. I’m already halfway through writing a follow-up to more thoroughly explain the whole right/wrong thing.

Although it may have to wait until I finish up my Round One entry to the Homestuck Shipping Olympics, been having some trouble with it.

terminallyfapricious:

vexarian:

Brofist. So hard. I actually make a tumblr account specifically to respond to this.

I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said and it’s actually a huge weight off my chest to know that someone else seems to have an actual problem with all of this, quite frankly insane slash shipping. I could and at one point damn near have written essays on just how utterly idiotic this whole trend is.

The obsession some people have toward slash-shipping John is quite frankly disgusting. And it’s not because of the slash, I don’t give a fuck about slash. I don’t read it, but the amount of fucks I give about it is so minuet it would take a team of swiss scientists and a ten billion dollar atomic nanoscope to measure it accurately.

What I care about is that they’re trampling all over canonical character traits, personalities and relationships just to sate their insatiable lust for man-on-ass action. I’d even be willing to cut them some fucking slack if they actually deserved any, but no it’s always just pure wank material that slams two utterly incompatible characters together with all the subtlety and grace of a pair of runaway freight trains colliding head-on. Not that I can really blame them, anyone with the skill and time to actually do it right has better things to to, like cure cancer and invent the universe.

Just recently I spent 700 words exhaustively disproving the very concept of John/Dave and John/Karkat after some idiot on the AO3 provoked me. Tempted to go back and continue ranting because said idiot clearly didn’t learn a damn thing.

Reblogging this to ask if I could be linked to said 700 words. I’m interested.

I’ll just copy/paste the entire rant.

The reason I’m not linking to it is because I don’t want to be drowned out like I was originally, and because I don’t care to give the dumbass I ranted at any more exposure.

He’s not a bad writer, in fact he’s so good that it just makes it all the more damning - not because I don’t think pairings I vehemently disagree with don’t deserve to be written - but because his shitty attitude makes me want to break his face. I’d never have gone off on him like this if he wasn’t so fucking full of himself.

Anyway, here’s the rant. I was pretty annoyed when I wrote it so it’s pretty coarse and very rough around the edges. If I had any actual motivation to do so I might go back and do some hardcore editing, along with adding some detail. 4300 Characters is pretty stringent though.

Warning: Writer losing his shit proceeds. RANT RANT RANT

Usually I just keep my fucking trap shut and let people do whatever the fuck they want. I couldn’t care less what you ship or write so long as you don’t shove it in my face. But since I already lost control of myself and started flipping my shit I may as well finish the damn job.

I literally can’t say a single good thing about John/Dave or John/Karkat pairings. I can’t even say it’s a creative pairing because there’s such a ludicrously disproportionate amount of it.

Added to it, you have to tear Canon into ribbons to make it work. First you have to get rid of John’s heterosexuality, either by just outright ignoring that it ever happened or using the magical Wand of The Nile. Either way I strongly doubt it’s ever been done right, and no that isn’t an invitation to try.

Of course John’s sexual orientation is only the first hurdle in this endless Olympian event. After that you’re in the unenviable position of having to somehow cancel out all of their existing romantic interests, John/Rose, John/Vriska, (Dave/Karkat)/Terezi, (Dave/Karkat)/Jade. All in a way that’s convincing. Of course if you choose to get rid of them by setting them up with someone else you have to literally pull everything to a stop, address this then start the god damn story again because there is absolutely no way to skip this.

Then after you’ve somehow managed to nullify John’s sexuality and his existing relationships, along with Dave or Karkat’s relationships you have to somehow find some spark of interest between the two that hasn’t already been smothered by this human disease of friendship/bromance. Here’s your shovel and fine toothed comb, this will take a while.

And after you’ve somehow located whatever seed of a relationship that may or may not actually exist in their interactions you have to somehow encourage it to grow and do so in a way that doesn’t seem cheap and contrived. This will be even harder then the last step.

This is all just to make the pairing believable. Most people don’t even get through the first sentence, they just randomly slap the two together like slabs of beef and pretend it makes any kind of sense. It’s either that or pull an insanely asinine Dues Ex Machina out of your Utility Belt or just give the fuck up and pull an extremely unsatisfying AU just to be able to smash the two together with all the grace of a pair of runaway trains.

I’m not declaring it to be impossible, but I am saying no one has given either pairing the treatment it would require to do right. You would need at LEAST a hundred thousand words to pull it off. And yes I do know how much that is, I’ve written a fic that’s at 50,000 words. If anything it feels too damn low, I’m tempted to double it. Even then it will probably fall short considering how exhaustively Hussie set up the canonical decahedrons.

I could write an encyclopedia on how this doesn’t work, and considering how nauseatingly pervasive this is I’m starting to think I might actually have to do so.

*Sigh*

I hope you realize that whatever dynamics you find so interesting in John/Dave or John/Karkat already exist. It’s a disease called friendship and it doesn’t require John, Dave or Karkat to be suddenly overwhelmed with a mysterious hunger for manflesh. And if you’re referring to anything else then I’m sorry to tell you this but, it doesn’t exist.

I also have no idea how you could possibly feel as though you could handle this pairing. There is so much stacked against it and absolutely nothing to support it whatsoever. I could get my two best friends together and combined we could almost certainly be the best writer this fandom has. Assuming I somehow managed to bribe them into trying to write this pairing it would still cost us four months of our lives, every scrap of our combined dignity and self-respect and all of my sanity, and I can still only say with a 50% certainty that we could pull it off and even if by some dark miracle we succeeded, at what cost? At what cost?

Brofist. So hard. I actually make a tumblr account specifically to respond to this.

I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said and it’s actually a huge weight off my chest to know that someone else seems to have an actual problem with all of this, quite frankly insane slash shipping. I could and at one point damn near have written essays on just how utterly idiotic this whole trend is.

The obsession some people have toward slash-shipping John is quite frankly disgusting. And it’s not because of the slash, I don’t give a fuck about slash. I don’t read it, but the amount of fucks I give about it is so minuet it would take a team of swiss scientists and a ten billion dollar atomic nanoscope to measure it accurately.

What I care about is that they’re trampling all over canonical character traits, personalities and relationships just to sate their insatiable lust for man-on-ass action. I’d even be willing to cut them some fucking slack if they actually deserved any, but no it’s always just pure wank material that slams two utterly incompatible characters together with all the subtlety and grace of a pair of runaway freight trains colliding head-on. Not that I can really blame them, anyone with the skill and time to actually do it right has better things to to, like cure cancer and invent the universe.

Just recently I spent 700 words exhaustively disproving the very concept of John/Dave and John/Karkat after some idiot on the AO3 provoked me. Tempted to go back and continue ranting because said idiot clearly didn’t learn a damn thing.